The Word Café Podcast with Amax

S4 Ep. 267 Legacy Is A Bridge We Build With Words

• Amachree Isoboye Afanyaa • Season 4 • Episode 267

Share episode

Send us a text

A fading generation holds memories of colonial rule, civil war, and the early years of Nigeria’s nationhood—yet too many of those stories are slipping away unrecorded. We sit down with writer and editor Timmy Yeseibo, who calls herself a conduit of legacy, to explore how a modern griot preserves memory through books, audio, and digital archives. From living-room interviews to community repositories and presidential libraries, we trace practical ways to capture voices before they go silent, and why a society that values remembrance makes better choices in the present.

Our conversation moves from the roots of the West African griot tradition to the realities of preserving history in a digital age. Timmy shares how to start small—record a parent’s timeline, scan photos, gather place names—and how to scale up through institutions that can protect and share those narratives. We also dig into the reading life that fuels her work. With a fifty-books-a-year habit, Timmy makes the case for deep reading as a counterweight to the loud, shallow churn of social media, showing how long-form attention builds judgment and curiosity.

We take a clear-eyed look at the material underbelly of “clean” technologies, drawing insights from Ed Conway’s Material World to unpack the hidden costs of batteries, semiconductors, cobalt, and sand. The thread running through it all is nuance: real understanding demands context, multiple sources, and the willingness to pause, research, and return. We close on legacy through memoir, including what a well-written but guarded political autobiography can—and cannot—do for public memory, and why every version recorded still sharpens the collective archive.

Subscribe, share this with someone who needs a nudge to interview an elder, and leave a review to help more curious listeners find the show. Then tell us: which story in your family needs to be recorded this week?

Support the show

You can support this show via the link below;

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1718587/supporters/new

SPEAKER_00:

It's always lovely coming into this space. How are you guys? Yes, I've not forgotten. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Good everything. Wherever you are on the surface of the earth, seeing and hearing me. Aha. Welcome to the World Cafe Live Show. It's always fun coming in here, honestly. I always say it not because I want to make you feel good, but it's the truth. Part of the reason why I'm here is because you're there listening. Each time I wake up and I know that you're there, it gives me this happy feeling and it's like somebody's there listening. So we're here. You know how we say it. This is the space where we're coming to lean on one another's experience to forge a positive path. I'm back. Did I ever leave? Okay, I'm not alone today. I have this amazing individual. I call her amazing. Not because I want to flatter her, but she is amazing. The first time I encountered her was on LinkedIn, and we've been uh together as in touch, connected, and I walked her out of this world. She's been on the show before, but virtually. And uh somehow she came into town, town I'm in Abuja, and I just let me tell you what happened. I was in church, caro service, having just this nice time, and somebody bumps into me and calls my name perfectly, the word cafe. And I just looked up. I was trying to place the face, she just called her name. I said, yes, and we laughed and all of that. And I said, You're in town. I need to bring you over for us to continue this discussion. Enough of my excitement. Her name is Timmy, then I'll allow her to introduce herself and we're gonna pick it up from there. Timmy, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Let the house meet you.

SPEAKER_03:

It's so good to be here. Thank you for inviting me here. It's a privilege to be here. And one of the things that I really enjoy about your work is your love of words.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03:

And your love for words. So I think in that way we connect with people that know the power of words and love what words can do. So my name is Timmy Yesei Bo. I'm a I'm a conduit of legacy, I think. I translate a legacy through words, and I do that through um ghostwriting, editing, reading books, and reviewing books. So our love for books is another thing that connects us.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Now, conduit, it speaks of some form of generational, uh, would I say inpute and flow. Where is that coming from? Is it from your parents, from the environment? How did you pick it up?

SPEAKER_03:

So as I reflect on what I do in totality, I find that what I'm actually helping people do is either craft the legacy or narrate the legacy. So I'm not necessarily talking about my parents, but about um transferring knowledge, legacy from someone to another person. And there's a context that I'm passionate about, and that is when I do ghost writing and I'm writing memoirs for older people. You know, there's something about the world, but let me narrow it down to Nigeria in particular. So I usually give the stats that we have a youth bulge. Less than 30% of our population is 70 and older. That's the population that experienced British colonial rule. That's the population that experienced the Civil War and other things about Nigeria. And that population is passing away, and they're passing away with their history. And because we don't usually, I mean, in the past we had oral tradition, right? But we don't really have that now. And we're not known for recording our history. So they're passing away with their knowledge, and it matters to me that that is preserved. And when I'm brought in to do that job, to write someone's memoir, I see myself as you can call me a groit, you know, as somebody that is transferring, that's recording, preserving legacy to transfer to another generation. So I'm bridging that so many, so many divides.

SPEAKER_00:

When you were talking, what came to my mind was a grey art. And uh, you just it came out from you. Uh and there was a day I was discussing with my kids, and they were like, What's a grey art? And I was trying to explain to them, but I'll allow you to do it now for my audience, because the African tradition is heavily Africa and maybe the Eastern tradition, heavily rooted in this grey art phenomenon. Please, let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_03:

So um there's this book I read, was it this year or last year? I'm seeing the picture of the book, but not the name. It's about Mali, and it's really um about the kings of Mali and how the groutes were so instrumental in that kingdom. So a king, uh, when he's a prince, you know, he's being trained to become a king, and when he becomes a king, the groit um serves to transfer the knowledge of his forefathers to him. So basically, what they do is you're born into this family. It's usually a family, you know. I'm talking about the traditional groutes now. And then your father is a growth, and he passes that tradition to you where he tells you the stories of your community, you know, um, from ancient times up to the present times. And you can imagine the amount of memory it takes because you have to memorize all this stuff, and this growth is very instrumental, not only to the king, but to the whole community. He carries their stories. How would they know what happened before? Because they were not born in that time. Yeah, and this could be like one, two centuries ago, and he has all these stories, he has all these histories of their forefathers, of what happened. And so that's basically a groid. And um it's something that I think we, of course, we now live in the digital age, and we have so much more opportunities to do that, yeah. And maybe other societies are doing it, but I think we could do much more here in Nigeria.

SPEAKER_00:

You've seen the movie Sinus.

SPEAKER_03:

Which one?

SPEAKER_00:

Sinus.

SPEAKER_03:

I may not have.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so I've not seen it, yeah. Uh, but I've seen the preview and all of that. It's about a vampire, and this vampire came from I think Ireland or so the Celtic region. So he came to the US, and uh the the natives, uh the Indians who understand the kind of being he is, okay, came after him. And uh they wanted to kill him, and he escaped, got to another place. They were chasing him actually. He got to this family, and the rule is if they knock and you invite them in, there's nothing you can do. It means you just invited trouble into your the Indians. Understand this. The sun was setting, you know. Traditionally, from what we're made to understand for reading books, the strength of the vampires came alive after sunset. You know, but this is where I'm going with my thought. He got into the house, you know, beat the people, transformed them, they joined his gang. And there was this group of blacks singing. From where he was, he could sense the energy, the power in what they were doing. A good number of them did not know. One of them, Sam, he got this gift of the Griert, as in from his uh, I think his father or his grandfather. And if you trace the it's from Mali. So the vampire came after after him. He just came there for him that he wants what he has. And they were like, Why do you want what he has? Because the sound he was producing was not just mere sound, it was energy. You could feel it. So when you were explaining this, I'm fortunately you're from Bayesa. Well, from that side of town. My mom, my my mom was more of the folklore person. She could tell histories. She's she's late now. She could tell history, date, time, exact what happened. And whenever she's talking, it's like she's in that mood. She's there. My granddad was also that kind of person. So I quite appreciate and understand what you're talking about, but we're fast losing it. The question now is how do we, would I say, keep this alive in the in this digital space or the the digital age? How do we do that?

SPEAKER_03:

So one of the ways that um that I'm familiar with that I'm doing is recording these histories, uh, and so that way the knowledge that they have is not lost, but it is preserved, you know, and uh it's preserved in book form, it can be preserved in audio form, it can be preserved in video form, but we have to want it, we have to also realize that this is important, that the knowledge they have, you know, there's this saying that those who don't know their history are condemned to repeat it. We have to appreciate that we have to um, I mean, for me, there's a sense of urgency with it, you know. So um when when I meet people, you know, and we start talking about their parents, and oh my, your parents are still alive, can you gather this history any which way?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um and then on a larger scale, so I'm just talking about what I'm doing personally, on a larger scale, I guess we have to institutionalize it as well, which is why um I appreciate when I went to um Abyoku Taugun State, I went to President Um Ulushegun Obasanjo's library. Yes, and he had created something really beautiful about his life, you know, from when he grew up to when he was a president. I remember they had this room. Um, I think when he was in the Yola prison, they recreated it. So that's him preserving.

SPEAKER_00:

See the images of it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so that's him presenting. So, so, but it's not something that is commonly done. Of course, it's expensive to do at his scale. But we have other, I think he's the first, I may be wrong here, but I think he's the first president slash head of state that has done something like that, that sees the importance of that. So I think that um as a society, we have to value it, find a way to institutionalize it. But before we even go that far, one-on-one, you know, we have to find ways to record, to be great in our family. So, in every family, for example, my family, maybe because I write and the natural growth, you know. I have interviewed my parents, I have tried to know their stories. I'm curious, what were you like as a child? What was Nigeria like when you were growing up? Where were you during the civil war? What did you experience? You know, and because I can write, I write it down. But I said, but even if you can't write, you can record it, you know, it's videos or audios, you know. So we can start there.

SPEAKER_00:

So I read a piece. I'm trying to remember his name. He was one time commissioner for I think information in River State.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

And that was during, is it Week's administration or the one before Dr. Tam, I've forgotten his name. So he's somewhere in the US. I think he went to do a program and he ran into this group of black American women. And they were traveling, I think the Midwest or something. And he was like, What are you guys? Why are you so excited and all that? They said they are trying to recreate the history of their ancestors. So they were traveling the Midwest, places they've been to, the slave era, you know, and all of that. So he was like, What are you guys trying to achieve? I said, Well, back to what you said a while ago about those who don't know their history, they are bound to repeat it, you know, and we don't want to make such mistakes. And uh he he it gave me this when I use the word solemn feeling, because a lot of us back here in Africa, Nigeria to be precise, we don't know it. We've lost it completely, and somehow we are repeating.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Go on.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, I think as you were talking, one of the things that came to me was that uh in the Bible, I believe it says that there is nothing new under the sun. So what has happened or what is happening is something that has already happened, and we can draw lessons, you know, and we can draw perspective, you know, we can shape what's happening today from what has already happened. So even on a national level, even when you're trying to make policy, you know, not talk of individual um levels and families, you know, we can look at what has happened to shape what is happening or what is going to happen. It's very important. There's nothing new under the sun. The same things we're acting about, the same things it's happened before. Yeah. And we can draw so much wisdom and nuance from what has happened in the past.

SPEAKER_00:

How many books have you read this year? Let me bring that to my audience. Because I was saying that before we came on and said, How many books have you read this year?

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, so I'm uh I think I'm on my 51st book.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Guys, did you hear that? Did you hear that? That's a mind that should be mined, like I said a while ago. 51st.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Tell us about it.

SPEAKER_03:

Um so um I've um I've always loved reading, you know. And I wouldn't say it was even something I was born with. But looking back, I'm grateful for my parents, the way that they raised us. I was born into a family where there were books all around. So my parents had a personal library, and they had this huge bookcase with lots of books.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

They were readers themselves. Obviously, that's why they had all those books, you know. And so I would just go and pick a book and read. And I think I used to see my father read as well. He was, uh he is my hero. And I wanted to be just like him, and he liked to read the newspapers. So I would sit, I remember being like six-year-old, sitting beside him, picking up a newspaper and reading along with him. Um, I remember a lot of our Christmas gifts, apart from being dolls and you know, whatnot, were also comic books like the Arches and all the kind of books that we had then, you know. So they gave us books as gifts, and then we used to do something called lesson. After school, you would go and do some after school studying. Yeah. And on my way, because you'd come home and then you'd go. So on my way going for lesson, my mom every single day would give me one naira. So this tells you this is way back to stop at um, there were, I think it was challenge bookshop. Okay, you know, so I'd she'd say buy a book. And so every day I had one naira on my way to lesson to stop at the bookshop and pick a book. So I pick a book. So I tell this story to just say that, you know, I wasn't born a reader, but my environment kind of shaped me. I was around books and I grew to love books and reading. And I continued reading, but life happens as you get older, work and everything, you get busy. So I read less and less the older I got, you know. But um, I still used to read. But I think either during COVID or just after COVID, I made a conscious decision that I'm going to get back to reading and I'm gonna um rearrange my life such that I can read. And the first year I was reading so much, and I think by July I had read um 25 or 26 because I said, hey, why not make it 50? And it just started, and I think this is my fourth or my fifth year of just reading 50 books, and I uh I enjoy it. The reason I put it out there also helps me to, I mean, nobody is putting a gun to my head, it's my own goal.

SPEAKER_00:

You inspire a lot of people, yes, you know, for for for one to read that much, you know, is not just for pleasure, it's not just for you want to create a content or something, no. You're expanding your universe, yeah. The way I see reading, that's you are encountering other personalities within the books, you know, and somehow you're also forming your opinion that when you bring it out there in the open, people come to see that we never thought of it like this. And that's because somebody's reading. That's because somebody so it also helps. Because the last time I saw it, I asked it intentionally because you you posted it on LinkedIn and was like, okay, she's read these books. Imagine me sitting down with her now, ask her questions on subjects like secular economy, quantum computing, because I know you did something on Huawei. There was this book you read about yes, and uh talk about global issues. This lady would definitely tell me something like I need to hear. You know, and one of my episodes was on the back of what you read. Okay, the summary you did, I picked it up, I went and did my own work on it, and that had to do with the how the AI revolution is resting on earth metals.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, yes, yes. I think material material world was it?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, material world.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, material world by Ed Conway. So that that's an interesting book. That um so what is what you said about both. Um uh giving us more knowledge and shaping the way that we think and our understanding of things. So one of the things Material World did for me. So we've all heard about climate change. And one of the things it did for me was to, at least for me, my one of my takeaways. There's so much about the book. One of my takeaways was to see like the quote and unquote, the hypocrisy of climate change, as it were, you know. So you find that AI, the technology, is using a lot of um material. You say we should move away from like fossils, wells, yeah? But you you find out that what we're moving to is more dangerous. Exactly. Because the materials that you need for it, you're gonna dig the earth, is also creating its own pollution and all of that. So it's like we're moving, I I dare say, from frame pan to fire, you know. So uh those kind of things. But on the surface, you just hear, oh, climate change, and so we're gonna um we're we're we're gonna move to electric vehicles. But then you read a book like that and you see what goes into electric vehicles, what goes into AI, the amount of batteries and the various things that it needs, even the sand that it needs, the sand, you know, the semiconductors and all wrestled. Silicon. Yes, the silicon. And then you you say, oh my God, do you know? Are we really what goes around comes around? Are we really changing anything fundamentally?

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. You know, so during the COVID year, uh, a lot of things happened during the COVID year, but something before the COVID year, we had this issue in Nigeria that had to do with Ebola. Yes, you remember, and there was this hoax that came up, two sisters who said if you drink salt water or you beat salt water, you'll be protected from the virus.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

You never heard of that. So let me I I will tell you why I'm telling this story. And when it came to me, and I was like, who said that? A lot of Nigerians were hooked on it. I said, I'm a river man, I'm from River State. I travel a lot then by sea and all of that. I know what salt water is. My grandfather taught us what salt water is, it peels your skin. If you dip yourself in salt water for, say, over an hour plus, you come out, you see your skin is going off. It darkens it. So who says if you drink a lot of salt water? This is where I'm going with this. Yeah. The ignorance. So the COVID a came up and a lot was going around. And I was asking individuals that I consider knowledgeable. Have you read about viruses before? How they act? They were all looking at me because I did biochemistry in my first degree, and I had the best of teachers. Yeah. People that sat under names like uh Waxin and Creek, who did the fellows that elucidated the DNA structure. Those are the kind of people that taught me. So, do you know what viruses are? People are like, no, they're saying this, they're saying that. But nobody was questioning the reality, the science behind it. Few people did. And somehow they stood their grounds and the tide turned. From what you're explaining now about that book and the revelations and all that, a good number of us don't do. All we see is that they say renewable energy, okay, it's going to do this, it's going to do that. But I ask that simple question: do you know the science behind it?

SPEAKER_03:

So true. Um, just like what she said about the uh Ebola crisis. Um so we are consuming content, you know. Um, we are reading. But the thing is, I think for the most part, like digital content, um it gives you information, but maybe not as much depth and nuance. It screams, it's loud, it's attention-grabbing. So like um, maybe during the Ebola crisis, you're seeing this information on social media and the way that digital information is presented, the way that content is presented, it grabs attention, it doesn't usually bring nuance, and it doesn't usually have enough depth. So you now have to go and read. Like you're asking people, do you know the science? Do you know? So you're asking them, do you have more information? So to look for more information, you might find it in another type of content, longer form content, either digitally or in physical books, you know, you'd have to read more to get um depth and to understand the nuance.

SPEAKER_00:

So sorry, so people are reading.

SPEAKER_03:

I wouldn't, yeah. So ignorance, yes, people are reading, but if that's all they are reading, if that's all we are reading, we might not get the depth and the nuance. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Recently we we moved house, like from I don't like moving. No, I don't. The it's strenuous.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So we moved. We had a lot of books, things were scattered all over. So I called my my my boys. I have two boys and a girl. So I called, I didn't want to stress her. So I called the boys and a couple of people. I said, okay, let's arrange the books. And my son, my first son, just looked at me and said, Daddy, do we all we need all these books?

SPEAKER_01:

And I said, Why are you asking that? He said, Everything we need is online. I said, You think so? He said, Yes, Daddy, it will just go online and all.

SPEAKER_00:

I said, Yes, son. To tore off the world mat the materials we have on earth, they're on physical spaces, they are stored in physical spaces. The digital world you're seeing is not scratched the surface. He was looking at me. I said, Yes. So let me tell you why we're stacking these books for research purposes to make reference then for history and also to help discipline. Because when you walk into a library or a space that has books, it quietens you. So he ended up stacking the books to where I wanted them. So it's another thing, you know, we are teaching those of us who have experienced the power of books, reading, synthesizing what we have read, and all of that to help our environment to see that there's more. You know, there's this saying, and I want you to speak to it, that if you want to deceive a black man, you want to confuse him, put him in it, put it in a book. How true is that?

SPEAKER_03:

Of course, I've heard the saying. Um, I I and I think maybe what they're I mean, what the saying is trying to say is that um that maybe um we're not reading enough and that we're um ignorant. Um I uh I think that we do read. Um, of course, our literacy levels are not where it should be.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

A few years ago, I had reason to do some research on various states of Nigeria and um look at the stats that the um government or the body, I think national statistics uh what had produced. And um, yeah, some states have low levels of literacy. That is true. But if I just say in general, the population that is reading, the percentage that is reading, I think the thing is what are we reading? I think we're reading a lot of short-form content, okay, uh digital content online. And like we already said, that kind of content doesn't always bring depth or nuance, it screams for attention. So uh, and with that, you may not, you know, really scratch the surface of issues. Now, regarding um what you said to your son about physical books and digital books, I'm not so dogmatic about it. Um I mean, we've moved from, I grew up where we had LPs, then we had cassettes, then we have CDs, then we have um MP3s, was the word called, and then now we're doing streaming, right? So um so I've seen things evolve. I was a um paper and hardcover book kind of person. And when ebooks came along, I felt like I could not really make the transition that I enjoyed flipping. I was one of those kind of people, but life happened and I had to move quite a bit. And you know, when you're moving, books weigh, and I had a lot of books, they weigh a ton, yes, and they cost a lot to ship from one country to another. True. And so when I looked at my shipping bills, I gave out a lot of my books and I have them in digital format. Most of my reading is presently done in digital format. So I'm not that dogmatic about it, must be a physical book. I think we should read and read in the way. So I encourage people, read what you like, read what interest, start from there, read in the format that you enjoy. iPad, phone, um, physical book, whatever you enjoy, whatever you have access to. Start at least let's just start. Before we start, you do you understand? Let's just start and start with what you're interested in and that your curiosity. For example, by the time while I was reading material world, for example, I learned things about, and we are a nation that produces oil and gas. You know, we're one of the largest producers in Africa. But I was learning things that I did not know, and halfway I would just, you know, put the book down, Google. So, ah, what does the guy say? What? You know, Google to find out more. So if you read what you like, your curiosity will, you know, it you would enjoy it, you'll be curious about things, and it will make you want to know more and read more, you know. So um, that's what I'll say that we we we start from there, from the short form content where we're reading, whether it's on Twitter, whether it's on um TikTok or whatever, and from there, ease into longer form content. Let's begin to be curious. Oh, why did they say, ah, this salt, water, and ebola? Uh-uh, but uh-uh, uh, salt that you take is if you if you take it too much, it does your mouth, one kind. And let me read more. So then you you start digging and digging like that. So um, yes, that saying is there, and there's a reason why this saying is is there, but it's not that I was that we're not consuming content, but we need to consume more with depth and um nuance. But let's start from where we are and move on.

unknown:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

You know what when you talked about oil and gas, how we're in Africa, one of the highest producing, you know, then in the world also. That a good number of us don't know, you know, the underlying what I say details when it comes to oil and gas activities. And I've been around oil and gas all my life. So that's why I said when they say certain things on global platform, I just look at it and that's it. These guys are not telling us the total truth.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, they are not. I've been there, so I understand what I'm talking about. But again, just to underscore what you said, read. Let that debt read. Don't just skim over things. Okay, you can start from scheming over things, but again, read. Yeah, take a second look, yeah. You know, analyze it, ask questions, be curious about it, because that's the only way you come to know. Yes, yes, that's the only way you come to know. But if you just sit down there, yes, the digital space has created the attention span are pretty short and all that, and you see us, we just the clickbait, consume this, that you just walk away, you laugh. But again, you miss the message. Go back. Surprisingly, you said when you were reading that book, you were googling. Yes, so there are certain things you came across, like, okay, let me see. You ask. Wow, really? I didn't know this. And I think we as a people, as an a nation, we need to embrace that and see that. Now, I know one of the books you read was um the IBB.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Now, tell us what did IBB say in his book?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I can't say everything, but one of the things I'll say about the book is it was very well written. And that's talking about the mechanics of the book. I remember in my I I posted a book review on Facebook, and somebody was so upset with me because I said it was very well written. And I had to explain that I'm not approving of the content. I'm looking at the mechanics of the book. It was written properly, it was written um with good grammar, good English, well structured. You know, the people that helped him with it did a good job. And that's what I was talking about. So I'll start with saying it was well written. And I say that because sometimes we see books that are not well written. Shabby, very yes, very shabby. So it was well written. If you bought a copy, it was also well done. Right? So the publishing, the physical book itself was also well done. So that was that's the first thing I'll say. Um, I think from the beginning, if you read the introduction, you already knew that the things that most Nigerians wanted to know, he wasn't going to answer. He said as much from the so from the beginning. He told his he told you that. If you came so let me put it in, um let me put it in like if you came here for giz, gist no deal. That kind of if you want to know some of the things, you know. So, but it was also interesting. Um, I feel, and this is why I'm happy that he wrote his book. Again, it's that thing about legacy. Now, many people have many opinions and um thoughts about IBB's legacy or what he did for Nigeria. No matter what you think, when you're gonna have a discussion, you must say his own part, which is he said this, whether you agree with it or not, which is why I encourage people, even public servants like our heads of states and ministers, to document, write your own story, write your version, whether people believe it or not. When that conversation is being had, they will say he said. Do you understand what I mean? Yes. So IBB has written his version. Uh, I think at that time when the book came out, judging from what people were saying in public, people were not impressed at all with what he said. Yes, they were expecting Jesus and he didn't really give it. But another thing is that I had so um in Lagos, the third mainland bridge is also called the IBB Bridge. Yeah. And you know, over time you forget why it's called IBB Bridge.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, it was due to it.

SPEAKER_03:

You read his book, and it then that I said, Oh, yeah, he did the bridge, you know. So um, in that history, as a controversial figure, I think it was um Yakub Bugowan that did the forward. Yeah, and in that forward, he listed some of the things that were done during his administration. And there were some good things. Again, like the IBB. I was like, oh, now you do this bridge, you know. I don't forget. I had forgotten that it was under his administration that that bridge was done. And there were there were some other things. I think there was um um the privatization of stuff, and there were just different things. I mean, I forget now as I'm sitting before you. So that was listed as well. But basically, he just tried to tell his story as it's a memoir, right? Yeah, he grew up, I think, in the Wukari area. I may be wrong, you know, how he became a soldier, um, and then his career in the military up to how he became um the president. But the more juicier stuff, because I I think in my review I said you can skip if you're curious, just skip, skip and get to page 200 and something. Because some people really don't want to know that about him. But it was interesting to know anyway. Yes, some people want to go, they're curious about the stuff and go from here because this is when he starts talking about um stuff. So he didn't really satisfy the curiosity because Nigerians have a certain expectation. I don't think he really satisfied the curiosity. So many people might leave the book feeling like uh okay, who killed Dele Guar? We still don't know. Do you understand? Uh what happened to Abacha? What happened to June 12? What happened? Those inner details that you expect that he knows about and he didn't really spill the tea on.

SPEAKER_00:

Rushman's uh Salman Rosh D, I think that's his name. Yeah, Satanic verse.

SPEAKER_03:

Satanic verses, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

He he was saying something about writing. I was going through, I follow him a lot too, his style of writing and all of that. He said we're always fascinated by the story of the kings. We forget the paupers. Yeah. So you're you you read about somebody, you don't want to know how he grew up. How did he get to that spot? What fashioned him? He's thinking, and somehow from what you're saying in IBB's book, he's telling you how he grew, how he rose, how he got to this point. So somehow you can deduce what he did not say.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, yes, there's a bit of that, but as I say, he is a um he's a controversial figure, and I dare say that maybe not well liked. So, and he left um many questions in his wake, and there's a sense in which you will say that it is people that don't eat belly food that want or that have time to be knowing about how you grow up. People have questions that they want to know, and they want to know it now. So it's like if he came here and you were interviewing him, everybody's going to tune into the word cafe. If he puts out that IBB is going to Here with Amax, everybody's going to tune in. And hopefully, yes. And I don't know that people can wait 30 minutes, or people just will get you know what they're waiting for. So the best thing is to address it up front, you know, and then you can talk about other things. So when you satisfy that curiosity, right? Yeah, that hunger, then people can settle down and listen about his life. Do you understand what I'm saying? So you didn't really give us anything. Then we should be where we will career. Who cares? We didn't even care. Do you know what I'm saying? So it's it's different. If it was a beloved, I'm trying to think of somebody that is beloved, but maybe none is coming to mind now. But let me say Nelson Mandela, for example. Then so you want to know how he dropped his rural exactly. He talks about his rural upbringing and all of that. You're reading and you're going on before you get to the prison and all of that. Uh-huh. So I'm talking that this is in general terms. But after general terms, you know that as individuals, we're all different, we're curious about different things. Yes, we are. So my choice of books, for example, is shaped by what I'm curious about. We can't all be curious about so we talked about the hydrocarbons, petroleum, oil, and gas, and all of that. Some people simply have no interest in that. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's why I said read what you like and what you're curious about. And then from there you begin to broaden. Exactly. Right. So some people, to be honest, uh, couldn't care less about Janas, worshiped or whatever. I say, who killed the nickel? Yeah, he tells me. That's my main, yeah, exactly. You know, so sometimes in order to get people to even read about how you grew, you need to feed them something.

unknown:

True.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. So what's the future for you now? What are you looking at? The years, I mean, 2026 is just uh here with us. What's your plan for the future?

SPEAKER_03:

Um, I'm going to continue reading. I'm going to continue to um hope that I inspire people when I share what I read. I, you know, I don't necessarily on LinkedIn on the more public-facing forum share all the 50 books that I read, but I do share a few that moved me. And I hope that by doing that, you know, people can be inspired, can learn more about those topics and um be inspired to read more. So going to 2026, I'm still going to be reading. I'm still going to be reviewing a few books that matter to me, hoping that um it will inspire more people to read. I get a lot of um DMs, yeah, LinkedIn, people asking me, How do you do it? Where do you find that time? And I'm like, hey, you don't have to be like me. You don't have to read 50 books. That's just me. And and and the nature of what I do and how I do it gives me time and whatever to read 50 books. But maybe you can commit to one book a quarter or two books a quarter. So 2026, I hope to inspire more people to read. And what we discussed when we started about being a grow and being a conduit of legacy. I hope to inspire more people. You don't have to be 70 or 80 before you start thinking about legacy and documenting stuff. So I hope to inspire more people, the older people who are passing away to document their legacy, but also the younger people as well, to begin to document their legacy. And they're also doing it as well through digital content. Because those things that we put out there, all that content you put out about yourself, is a different way of documenting legacy. But you know what we said? There's nothing new under the sun. So when we go to Instagram and we take pictures of ourselves, what I did today, I went here, I went to um Abia State, I went to Brazil, I went to Peru, and you take all these pictures and you post it on Instagram, you're documenting legacy, you're telling your story in picture form. But remember, way, way, way back, they used to write on walls with symbols, pictures, pictograms, they're called. There's nothing new under the sun. We're doing it again, but with a different technology. So then I don't know what they use, the kind of ink they used. Now we're using photography to document. So keep documenting in different forms, keep using all the various platforms. But as Amax has said, be more curious. Be more curious, go for nuance, go for depth.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Amazing guys, I told you she's a mind and needs to be mind. I said it. And uh the first time I encountered her, yes, uh, I mean, I was just endeared and enamored more or less. And her post on LinkedIn, I always look out for it. And I pick a lot from it. You know, a lot. It's like I read her works and I go further, do, should I say, more research. It's not as if I don't know, but it's like she's giving me a new vista, and I just go and I pick it up and I continue and all of that. For the sake of time, she she's pretty, pretty busy this period. And I'm glad that she's obliged to be here. That you will agree with me. We've had an amazing time. So uh what should you do? That's the question. You know, like we always say here, this is the space where we come in to lean on one another's experience to forge a positive path. I hope what you've heard today uh has gotten to you in a way that inspired you, that you wake up, pick up that book, pick up that project, you know, start doing the positive things because you know that at the end of the day the stage will move, people will come, and maybe it will stumble upon what you have done, and it will also help them to make the right decision. So before we let her go, this is what we always do to our guest on the show. We have this wonderful tropillo for her, and uh she may do with it what she pleases.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you so much. You're welcome. Oh, Ward Smith.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Oh, we always share this with our guest, and uh, you know, you have it in your car, your room. Certainly. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03:

It would inspire me. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a wonderful time. When you meet two people that love words, the conversation ever.

SPEAKER_00:

It will never, exactly. I will just tell myself, where do we stop this? Where do we stop this? But somehow we need to stop it and uh pick up, you know, some other time. So, guys, we need to run now, but you know how we say it on the show. We always come here to give you juicy stuff, things that will make you think, things that will make you ask questions, the right questions. Like I always tell my children, you're not asking the right question. Ask the right question. Because you ask, you seek, you knock. It's called ask, and things begin to happen. Because when you ask, there's an answer. When you seek, you will find. When you knock, definitely the door will be opened. So go ahead and do that. Well, you know how we say it. We are available on all the social media platforms: X, LinkedIn, Instagram. We have a YouTube channel. Have you subscribed? Go ahead, subscribe, hit that notification button so that when episodes like this drop, you'll be the first to hear it. You know how I say it. Till I come your way again. My name is Amakri. Amakri is away.

unknown:

Bye for now.

SPEAKER_00:

Timmy?

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you so much for having me.